Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gerri on August 24, 2010 at 1:13pm

I agree, Kelly. I also agree that 60 grams of carbs per meal is nonsense. It's ludicrous for a diabetic to eat like that. Brown rice, potatoes, bread, oatmeal--no thanks!

I've been eating 30-35 carbs per day for over 2 years.

Maybe one day, the ADA & dieticians will revise their outdated meal plans.

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Permalink Reply by Diabetes Chef on August 24, 2010 at 5:36pm

5.8 % is cool.

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Permalink Reply by Diabetes Chef on August 24, 2010 at 6:40pm

Even better...right Low carb diet may work for some and not for others due to medical history and vital stats. Low carbs diet or meal plan may not be good for people with type 2 diabetes, because the disease makes it more likely that a person will develop related conditions such as cardiovascular disease.

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Permalink Reply by Gerri on August 24, 2010 at 6:54pm

Tons of solid research that shows that it's carbs that lead to heart disease, not dietary fat. The ADA is going to have to catch up with the times.

I can point you T2 members here who have controlled their BG eating low carb. Some don't even take meds. Their lipid profiles are great.

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Permalink Reply by Diabetes Chef on August 25, 2010 at 5:53am

Yes, I am aware of much research where T2 patients have managed to their BG eating low carb. And that's awesome! What I was referring to Alan's comment was the fact that Low carb may not be good for some people- T2 diabetes, because the disease makes it more likely that a person will develop related conditions such as CVD

When counseling with folks I will inform them low-carb lifestyle is a constant journey of self-discovery, realizing how the foods you eat and your environment uniquely impact YOUR BODY, and to act accordingly to what works best for you. They may need the support as they discover how it all works for them. It would be nice if there was such a thing as the “magic pill” answer to obesity and health concerns, but the reality is that it just doesn’t exist. Once you come to grips with this, the closer you are to finding the answers to your specific metabolic and physical challenges.

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on August 24, 2010 at 7:42pm

So what sort of diet would be good for someone with type 2 diabetes? The best I can tell, high blood sugars tend to cause a spectrum of conditions that increase CVD. Wouldn't it make sense to reduce blood sugars, ideally down to normal levels. What diet would you suggest for that?

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Permalink Reply by Diabetes Chef on August 25, 2010 at 6:13am

What diet would you suggest for that? You ask, well first of all I dislike word "DIET". There are so many diet fads people try and then they fail at it. People are angry and depressed at the world. It' would be hard for me to suggest one kind of meal plan because one has to understand and know the patient.Have to ask them series of "Good" questions about their health and current eating habits. Maybe email or talk with doc and see what he or she thinks?

Just off the top of head, I would say, A low fat Vegan diet, or using the G.I.or even the glucose method of control, or even yet Mediterranean-style diet instead of or in addition to the low-fat diet...these are just a few I could tell you. In my readings, I have read and heard that some folks eat a lot of eggs--"Protein & fat" and this may raise risks T2. Some studies indicate nutrients in eggs may lower that risk but on the other hand it may suggest that eating eggs frequently may have bad health effects (such as raising the risk of CVD for people who already have type 2 diabetes. One study I read said that it is not known whether eating eggs raises the risk of getting diabetes for people who don't already have it. Hope , I have answered your question?

Permalink Reply by The Diabetic Welfare Queen on August 24, 2010 at 10:06pm

Dietary fat and cholesterol do not get metabolized as corporal fat. They are instantly used for bodily functions, many very vital bodily functions. It is the excessive glucose in the blood stream, along with the help of excessive insulin (the fat storing hormone), that carbohydrate dense foods will get turned into fat in the body.

You are wrong in assuming that Type 2's have a higher prevalence in cardiovascular disease. I know many people on this forum who will tell you about how their loved one with Type 1 Diabetes died much too young of heart disease.

Excessive consumption of carbohydrates that will end up turning into fat, in the body, spare NO ONE. Lowering carbohydrate consumption is KEY in controlling Diabetes.

Cholesterol is not the enemy. Cholesterol is the healing agent of cells when damage to arteries happens... When there is too much cholesterol it is because there is horrible damage going on -- from too much glucose in the blood, as one of the primary reasons for Diabetics. Cholesterol is "recruited" by the body to problem areas it needs to heal, when there are issues... It is not "over accumulated" by eating too much of it.

It is over accumulated by getting your arteries attacked over and over again, by high blood sugars, and your body needing to call on massive amounts of Cholesterol to form plaques to heal the said damage.

There is NO easy way to lower cholesterol, and lipids without lowering carbohydrate consumption. Simply put, high glucose levels CAUSE the damage that make our bodies try to "save fat for rainy days," and accumulate Cholesterol to heal hurts and wounds.

Do not kid yourself -- Cardiovascular disease is an equal opportunity of all uncontrolled Diabetics, whether they are Type 1, or Type 2, and their weight plays hardly a role in it.

I am a low carber, and my A1C is 5.5%, and my lipids/cholesterol/triglycerides/blood pressure all went from very high, to all at the bottom end of the normal scale. My fatty liver went away. I have never felt better.

Please don't keep people from being healthy, and taking control of their Diabetes, by feeding them bunk.

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Permalink Reply by onesaint on August 24, 2010 at 10:31pm

@Marie B Ive done that one! I thank God Im decent at math and can calc all this out in my head otherwise Id be up a creek. Honestly I think its all marketing and attempting to make the products look good.


@Lizmari Fundamentally, I figure, what are humans genetically engineered to eat? Greens, meats and not a ton of carbs. Its funny, I agree with your message and just read that cholesterol article myself, but you come across so aggressive and angry, you loose me in the agression.

Permalink Reply by Diabetes Chef on August 25, 2010 at 7:29am

There is still a consensus where type 2 diabetes is obesity dependent, and obesity is the main cause of type 2 diabetes, T2 has been referred to as ‘diabesity’. There is much solid evidence that indicates T2 diabetes is a disease of fatness. I understand your thinking concerning "Cholesterol is not the enemy" This whole process is very important as you well stated. But, however there must be a balance here. Just listen and here me out...There was this Dutch study that examined the effects of carbohydrates and various fats on blood lipid levels. The polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats were eaten in place of carbohydrates, these good fats decreased levels of harmful LDL and increased protective HDL. Another test was done known as the Optimal Macronutrient Intake Trial for Heart Health showed that replacing a carbohydrate-rich diet with one rich in unsaturated fat, predominantly monounsaturated fats, lowers blood pressure, improves lipid levels, and reduces CVD. We have discovered that our clients don't get enough of these healthful unsaturated fats each day. As of yet there are no strict guidelines currently regarding their intake. Our targets for our clients are 10 to 25 percent of calories from monounsaturated fats and 8 to 10 percent of calories from polyunsaturated fats. Since no one eats by percentage of daily calories, a good rule of thumb is to choose unsaturated fats over saturated whenever possible. There are many different types of fat and admittedly confusing effect on health and disease at times, the basic message is simple: Out with the bad, in with the good. As one limits the amount of trans and saturated fats in ones healthy meal plan, and as the American Heart Association, National Cholesterol Education Program, and others recommend, please keep in mind that there is no good evidence that replacing saturated fat with carbohydrates will protect you against heart disease, while there is much proof that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fats will help.Some suggestions would be to eat avocado, fish,bone less breast chicken(skin-less) pecans,walnuts,hazelnuts,almonds, canola or soybean oil, ground flax seeds or flax seed oil. Eggs and red meats should be limited to 1-2 times per week and one should consume at least 1 or 2 servings of fish per week.

I congratulate on discovering your personal low carb meal plan.Your A1C is 5.5% that's awesome and feel better. Please do not discourage someone from deciding to have balance by replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fats in their personal meal plan. Thank you.

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on August 25, 2010 at 8:25am

I get real heartburn when so called "experts" try to convince me of stuff that is just not substantiated. Despite claims otherwise, "consensus" is not "evidence." And the well established correlation of obesity with T2 diabetes does not establish cause. It is probably more true that obesity is "caused" by diabetes. I should caution you that statements that assign "blame" and suggest that T2 diabetes can be cured by just losing weight are "insenstive" in this community.

I am quite happy to talk about the studies on these subjects. The Dutch study you presumably cite (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716665?dopt=Citation) seems critically flawed, lumping transfats with saturated fats. It seems you cannot conclude anything from the report. Note the conclusions:

"The effects of dietary fats on total:HDL cholesterol may differ markedly from their effects on LDL. The effects of fats on these risk markers should not in themselves be considered to reflect changes in risk but should be confirmed by prospective observational studies or clinical trials. By that standard, risk is reduced most effectively when trans fatty acids and saturated fatty acids are replaced with cis unsaturated fatty acids. The effects of carbohydrates and of lauric acid-rich fats on CAD risk remain uncertain."

The latest results in fact suggest that saturated fat is not a major source of CD. This study ( http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27725v1) looked at high quality prospective studies and found "no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.

The OmniHeart study you cite is irrelevant, it looks at three high carb diets, all variants of the thoroughly trashed DASH diets. In contrast, this study (http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/297/9/969) of the Atkins, Zone and Ornish diet, showed that low carb diet seems pretty darn good, not only at weight control but also all the other health markers like blood pressure and cholesterol.

I have looked extensively at the evidence. An interesting read on these subjects is "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. I always welcome interesting discussions and there are many different views, opinions and positions all of which are part of this community. But understand, you get no credibility with me by claiming to be a "nutrition expert," by being a certified nutritionist or backing stuff up with the ADA, AADE, AHA or NCEP. To me, I want the studies and I want the facts. I feed on that stuff.

Well, I also am a pretty darn good cook.

Permalink Reply by Bubbaluv on August 25, 2010 at 10:31am

@Diabetic Chef - Your comment:

There is still a consensus where type 2 diabetes is obesity dependent, and obesity is the main cause of type 2 diabetes, T2 has been referred to as ‘diabesity’. There is much solid evidence that indicates T2 diabetes is a disease of fatness.

Not only is this wrong, but its also very insulting. There are many factors for T2, only 1 being obesity. Based on this comment, you must be T2 then. Please, show me this "solid" evidence.

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