Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Zoe on July 17, 2012 at 3:06pm

I'm really glad you put that all out there, Juliannaegirl, because yeah, it's good to do! I hope people will respect your honesty. First of all I do not think everyone on this site is fantastically awesome at their bg 99% of the time! Hardly! It's just easier to notice the ones who are. When people say "I keep my blood sugar between 80-100 at all times" it's easy to think, "what am I doing wrong?" But I just think that's great for them, but my diabetes isn't as stable as theirs and/or they do things I am unable or unwilling to do. From my experience on here I think there are some of those, some people who don't do much work on their D and have the results they expect and some people who work their butts off and still struggle with numbers. But I think most of us are somewhere in between. We set our goals in terms of diet and blood sugar targets and sometimes we achieve them, sometimes not. Personally I'm better at the diet part than the bg part, because I feel I have more control over the former.

First I think it's utterly irrelevant what your basal/bolus ratio is; that's just one of those formulaic guidelines that some of us match and many of us don't.

Now to the hard question: Is it ok to eat like this if I am able to keep my bg under control? I'm not sure what you believe or feel about it but if you are posting it here I'd assume you are concerned. The "if I am able to keep my bg under control" is part of the answer. Your A1C is good if it reflects genuine numbers and not many highs and lows that average out. For me, if I ate that way I would have very very high blood sugar and I'd gain tons of weight. But you are very active and don't gain weight so that's great. So what would be the problem? I see two things coming down the pike at you: 1) You are using very low doses of insulin and given your diet I'm assuming you have very generous I:C ratios - like 1:30? That may change. You aren't brand new but you're still early enough in the game that you could be honeymooning and given that TDD I assume you are. (Have you had a c-peptide done?). When that honeymoon ends things may change drastically and then you may really have to reevaluate. 2nd: Along the same line, if you do have increased insulin needs down the road and continue the same diet you could be putting yourself in line for Insulin Resistance. You really don't want that! As you get older you may also find your ability to burn off calories decreases and you will gain weight (which also increases IR) Finally, you're a paramedic so you know that poor diet has other impacts on the body aside from blood sugar.

So if you do want to make changes in your diet, what would motivate you? To me, diet is all about planning. I know it's easier for me than you because I don't work your busy schedule. But it is possible to plan a better diet by shopping weekly for the foods that you can eat quickly when you get home hungry but which are healthier. When I was working (two jobs) I would cook on the weekend and then freeze it and eat all week long just by using the microwave so I'd have tasty and healthy foods ready in minutes. Also are there things you can take with you, or store at home base so you have good alternatives when you are hungry on the go? Just some thoughts.

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Permalink Reply by juliannaergrl on July 17, 2012 at 5:07pm

I do eat healthier than almost everyone I know... and I use almost every trick in the book to eat healthier. I shop and only buy whole foods, I buy organic food. I make most my food from scratch. I freeze a lot of things for later. I even have pack my lunch in a cooler with snacks and drinks and everything in an effort to eat more diabetic friendly and save money at the same time. It just don't adhere to the low carb diets that I see are typical here.

I have had a c-peptide done. It came back 0.81. I know I still make some insulin and I know it is starting to fade which will increase my TDD. It doesn't bother me to have to take more insulin. ANd I know that it may cause weight gain eventually and that it may sound as though I think their is something wrong with my eating habits.

I don't necessarily think their is something wrong with them so long as my B/G remains stable. I just worry that its not okay because of all the stuff I've read about TDD and Basal:Bolus ratios and now my head is spinning. I suppose I just wish I fit into that "perfect" diabetic role so I could know what to expect. Instead, I have been "blessed" with what I have which I feel affords me the option to eat more than most diabetics ut probably still less than others around me.

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Permalink Reply by palomino on July 17, 2012 at 5:53pm

Everyone's different... my ISF doesn't match my I:C, and neither of them match my TDD... but it works for me..

And insulin doesn't directly cause weight gain, it's the eating more and exercising less which makes you need more to keep things stable..

I doubt any of us fit into a perfect diabetic role... (obviously) I don't follow a low carb diet... though I try to keep it less than 150g a day or at the very least less than 45 to 60g of carb per meal. But if you're like me, you gotta allow yourself a burger or a cookie occasionally.. because if I don't, I'm likely to want to gorge myself on said burger or cookieS and then have food hangovers...

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Permalink Reply by Zoe on July 18, 2012 at 12:24pm

I actually used to be the first person to say insulin doesn't make you gain weight. I believed that people who gained weight were either in the early stages of their insulin treatment where their body was switching over to healthy blood sugar, or that they took insulin as permission to "eat whatever they want and bolus for it". But I've changed my mind about that. Over the 3 years I've been on insulin I stayed pretty much under 100 carbs a day and even used low fat products though most people disagree with that. I didn't reduce or change my activity level. Yet I slowly but surely gained 12 pounds during that 3 year period. Most people think I "eat like a bird" so the insulin is the only factor. Age definitely contributes to that tendency but yes, I do believe insulin can lead to weight gain, not just from my own experience but from many others I've spoken to. Sigh.

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Permalink Reply by Shawnmarie on July 19, 2012 at 9:39am

This topic is very interesting to me now that I'm using insulin and approaching menopause. Couldn't the weight gain also just as easily be attributed entirely to a slight slowing down of metabolism as you age? If you do the calculations, a 12 pound weight gain over 3 years equates to only about 38 extra calories a day over what the body needs to maintain its weight. I've seen references to women needing about 100 calories less per day after menopause than they did before, so it seems that could be the issue. Then again, could just be my wishful thinking!

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Permalink Reply by Shawnmarie on July 19, 2012 at 9:58am

To further clarify -- it's always been my understanding that the metabolism continues to slow a bit each year as we age. I didn't mean to imply that it was just one big change between pre-menopause and post.

And final clarification re calculation I was referring to above. If a pound equals roughly 3500 calories, over the course of three years, 38 extra calories a day is 41,600 calories which equates to roughly 12 pounds.

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Permalink Reply by palomino on July 19, 2012 at 6:51pm

As a random but related aside... in cats and dogs, post-spay or neuter, metabolic demands decrease due to decreased levels of hormones... so you can feed them less.

Yet another reason to spay or neuter... smaller pet food bill :)

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Permalink Reply by Zoe on July 19, 2012 at 12:04pm

Good points, Shawnmarie. But my weight was quite stable before diagnosis and I've significantly decreased my caloric intake significantly since I've been on insulin, so I'm convinced that the insulin is a factor in the weight gain. But (like many things) I see it as a combination of the two (at least) factors of menopause and insulin. Btw I have further reduced my carb intake (from "under 100" to 39-59) and am finally seeing a slow weight loss which I'm convinced is from less carbs but also from the less insulin needed to cover those carbs.

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Permalink Reply by Zoe on July 18, 2012 at 12:19pm

I might have misunderstood your description of what you eat; I thought you were concerned about your diet because you eat a lot of pizza, cheeseburgers and ice cream. I understand we are all different, and I'm glad you explained some of your healthy eating habits - although to be honest, due to your schedule it sounds like you don't always adhere to the standards you set yourself. In a way you remind me of me when I got diagnosed: I told the dietician I ate really healthy because I was a vegetarian and never ate sugar and like you I made things from scratch and ate few processed foods. But now I understand that as a vegetarian I ate way too many carbs. I think there is a difference between a true "low carb diet" and just some restriction of carbs. For me, if I ate some of the foods you mention my blood sugar would be all over the place and I'd find it very hard to bolus accurately. As your honeymoon ends you may find the same to be true as well as, like I mentioned the possibility of gaining weight and developing Insulin resistance. Perhaps you can make some adjustments to your diet without having to go true low carb - I think it's a continuum and it isn't all or nothing. I just think the "eat whatever I want and just bolus for it is frought with peril.I don't want to push my views, but then you did post out of a concern so I figured I'd give my opinion.

Again, I don't think the basal/bolus ratio is at all important.

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Permalink Reply by Zoe on July 18, 2012 at 12:50pm

Just wanted to add something because I re-read your original post and it said: "When I was first diagnosed, I tried to do everything the "right way" but now I am burnt out and since I have gotten my pump and started going to an Endo, she even said herself I need to relax and try eating different things."

I have a name for that; I call it the "twinkie granola syndrome"! I think if we try and be the "perfect diabetic" and really restrict ourselves we feel deprived and burnt out and then go in the opposite direction. Shawnmarie said it perfectly when she said the "middle way". I also think it's necessary to really work at finding things to eat that are reasonably diabetes friendly but also are tasty and satisfying. You shouldn't have to go to bed feeling hungry! I think part of it is carb addiction. When people are used to eating loads of cards they have a physiological as well as psychological addiction to them ( I myself had one to sugar and I know it's real!). So then when they have less of them they feel unsatisfied (physical) and deprived (psychological). Once you've made some cut in carb intake those cravings will go away. Personally when I eat a very carb laden meal like pizza or pasta now I can feel it sitting in my stomach like a lump and I feel generally lethargic

Finally, yep, most endos, cdes and dieticians have bought into the ADA line about "eat whatever you want". To me it is all a part of catering to what they feel is the non-compliance of diabetics. I think it does us all a disservice by expecting so little from us!

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Permalink Reply by palomino on July 17, 2012 at 4:26pm

What I have to say probably isn't very useful, but quite frankly..

I have eaten McDonald's and pizza, what's wrong with that?

I love the heck out of some Backyard Burgers.

I eat pasta- but only Dreamfields because everything else wildly tosses my BG out of control; and it actually tastes good.

I totally ate 2 cookies for breakfast the other day.

And I haven't gained anything... BG's were mostly under control (well, until I started the pump on Sunday)...

But I love veggies and salads and eat tons of them as well. I think it's all about moderation..

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Permalink Reply by juliannaergrl on July 17, 2012 at 5:10pm

I agree about moderation and I do try for that. I love salad and veggies and will eat them regularly.

I find Dreamfields Pasta kind of throws me for a loop. I like the idea of it, but I usually end up low because I over bolus, or high if I don't. I have also heard that it works over a longer period of time which would cause me to go higher later... I have no idea, so I just bolus the crap outta regular pasta, lol.

Thank you for eating cookies for breakfast. That makes my day!

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