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Permalink Reply by Frances on August 11, 2010 at 6:23am

I have a better idea: why don't you give us the feedback, since you are the one experimenting on yourself? What was your A1C before you started? Then tell us what your A1C is three months from now. You could, in the meantime, tell us how your blood sugars are running. I for one would be quite interested to hear the results.

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 6:40am

It's obvious that you don't have any information to share.

Mel

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Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on August 11, 2010 at 7:09am

Barnard is a founding member of PCRM and an active animal rights activist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_D._Barnard). I find his authority on diabetes highly questionable given his demonstrated competence, background and motives. I think a vegan or vegatarian diet is a personal choice and you can (with work) be a healthy diabetic on these diets. But I would not turn to this book as foundation for making that decision and certainly not as appropriate guidance on how to select an appropriate vegan/vegetarian diabetic diet

Neal Barnard was also behind the movie "Simply Raw" which argues that you can "cure" T1 diabetes. This movie was truly "scary."

For more information on Neal Barnard, peruse http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/pcrm.html and http://www.animalscam.com/sources.cfm

And for your information, I've read the book. There are some provocative throughts in the book and "some" useful advice. But for the most part, the "science" is highly biased, not supported, out of context and in direct conflict with most of what is really understood about diabetes.

Feel free to give it a try, but measure your progress by what your meter says and how your health progresses. Most of us in this community believe that carbohydrates cause your blood sugar to rise, this is not really Dr. Barnards position.

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Permalink Reply by JeffD on August 11, 2010 at 8:05am

Just from what you have described I am skeptical. Everyting I read says that fat in a your body comes from insulin storing up fat reserves from unused blood glucose, that comes mostly from eating carbs. I don't think you can reduce any fat in your body simply by eating less fat.

I have no idea about being a vegan, but just that it appears the science is wong.

The other thing I have learned is that anyone who tells me diabetes can be reversed through anything but a transplant is misinformed or lying.

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 8:39am

Thank you, Jeff

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 8:42am

Thanks, John

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Permalink Reply by Zoe on August 11, 2010 at 9:55am

I'm a vegetarian-not a vegan-and I find that eating varied and enjoyable dishes while keeping my carb intake moderately low (100 or lower) takes a lot of time and effort. I'm retired (mostly anyway..lol) and live walking distance to one of the most varied and wonderful grocery stores in the country (Berkeley Bowl) and it takes work. I definitely wouldn't advise anyone to eat a vegetarian diet for the sake of their diabetes, let alone vegan. But if a person is already committed to those diets/lifestyles than it is possible to continue and manage blood sugar-with time, effort, and expense.

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 11:51am

Zoe, thank you. If I dont't get anything from this book, it did awaken me to my fat consumption-- cheese and eggs. I've cut them for now, along with some other fatty stuff. Regards, Mel

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Permalink Reply by Ronnie Gregory M on August 11, 2010 at 8:42am

I was able to catch some of his infomercial on WVIZ last night and I tweeted about it.....If you are on twitter....ask Richard Johnston, his twitter handle is @Diabetesnotfun.....he told me he was in the study maybe he can help you out.....

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 9:16am

Interesting-- thank you.

Mel

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Permalink Reply by KimKat on August 11, 2010 at 10:10am

I am a vegan and I was one before diagnosis. It is an ethical choice for me and permanent lifestyle for me. That said, after i was diagnosed I saw an infomericaly type thing on cable about him and saw the book. I went to Borders to check it out first. I was already doing low carb but since I was already a vegan I wanted to check out his book (maybe for recipes and such) and his book recommends a higher carb diet than I was already eating which is why I didn't buy the book. A vegan diet can have tons of fat in it depending on your foods choices. I was also already eating less fat or the same amount of fat that was in the recipes in his book.

The theory that there is too much fat on the cells is one I have heard before. I naturally do not eat a lot of fat becuase I have not eaten much saturated fat (meaning animal fat) for 20 years. There is also saturated fats in coconut and choclate btw.

I guess I have a different perspective on this considering my background. I know many on this site do not like any vegan diet. Here is what I think: You should avoid all the processed foods you can. Things like bread, pasta and also high carb white foods like potatoes and rice. Before I was diagnosed, my vegan diet was full of a lot of that stuff (and not much fat at all!) All those extra carbs turn into sugar and turn into fat. I stopped eating them after i was diagnosed (I eat one piece of low carb toast a day) and I lost 25 pounds - I was NOT overweight, btw 5'4" and I weighted 130 - and I dropped my diagnosis A1C of 9.2 to 4.9 in three months and I think it was all because I gave up those four things. Also I have increased fresh foods - lke greens, veggies etc. Oh, no more real sugar too but that is obvious - I didn't eat a lot of sweets prior anyhow.

So, what do I think about the fatty cell theory? Well, it is a difficult one for me. It makes sense - I mean, if your cells are all covered with fat how could they work properly right? But the question for me is: where does that fat really come from? Is it strictly fat that is consumed from a diet high in animal saturated fat? Or is it fat that is created from too many high carb food like processed breads, sugary pops etc. that turn all those excess carbs into sugar than into stored fat (because we know most people don't exercise enough to burn that stuff off)? For me, it would be the latter because the first doesn't apply.

For me, my D is definatley genetic and defiantely age-related. A vegan diet will NOT STOP you from getting D if you are already genetically predisposed to it (I am living proof of that). But can it improve your insulin sensitivity - I think maybe yes IF you give up all those white carbs. A vegan diet (if it is a healthy one - yes, vegans can have crappy diets!) can be low in fat but there is a lot to give up and it requires a lot of will power. If you do it, you can't replace all the meat you were eating with a bunch of high carb stuff if you are diabetic - best to do is to put in more greens, veggies etc.

Anyhow, this is just my viewpoint based on my experience. This all said, if you decide you want to be a vegan, I thought his book was a decent starter for new vegs. Me, I am an expert at this diet so his book was very beginnerish for me! :) But if you do the diet right and exercise, it should help you lose weight (and fat!) if that is what you are also needing to do.

If you need advice on the diet, you can email me.

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Permalink Reply by JeffD on August 11, 2010 at 11:23am

A vegan diet is supposed to be very healthy. And I would suppose with a little tweaking can be very diabetes friendly. The vegans I know are very healthy, though part of that can be attributed to their overall attention to healthy eathing, healthy suppliments, healthy activities, all of that stuff that often goes with a vegan lifestyle.

So I would be the last to knock a vegan diet.

Its the part about the fat. My understanding is that body fat has nothing to do with dietary fat.

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