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Permalink Reply by KimKat on August 11, 2010 at 2:52pm

Hi JeffD,

Believe it or not, there are tons of vegans who eat a super crappy diet. They are basically vegans for ethical reasons but not for health ones (You will meet more ethical vegans than health-reason ones. But some do both. Some for even environmental reasons). I mean, potatoe chips and Coke are vegan! As long as it is vegan, they will eat it. So you can easily end up with a vegan diet full of basically junk food and nothing healthy - not even any veggies! I have been there. :)

I have tweaked my vegan diet to be diabetes friendly. It involves a lot of restriction because most vegans live off of the high carb foods. I can't eat dairy anymore even if I wanted too - I notice I get ear problems and very phlemy if I do. You just have to find creative ways to replace those carbs foods with other things that are low carb and also healthy. In the long run, I am eating better now as a diabetic vegan than I was as a non-diabetic vegan. So in a way, this is the only good thing that has come out of this for me (so far!)

I will admit I am not sure about the fat. Although, I think it is basically true that too much dietary fat leads to too much fat on the body (and IN the body). Obviously, being overweight slows our systems down (and us!).

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Permalink Reply by Mel Wright on August 11, 2010 at 11:45am

Well stated, Kimberly. It is good info. You've done well. I'm a 6.2 A1C at 5'6" at148 lbs., age 68 and a gym rat. I can see that we are all looking for solutions. Thanks, and I just may write you for advice. Mel, OK City

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Permalink Reply by mistermister on March 11, 2012 at 6:12pm

I bought this book back in mid 2009 after being diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. I didn't want to use drugs. I knew there had to be a natural way to reverse or slow the effects of diabetes. I did research and came across Neal Barnard's book on Amazon. I bought it and followed it religiously. I still have the calendar I used. My start weight was 190 and I am 5'9 and my BLS was 280.( I ran regularly, did kickboxing, cycled, and walked everywhere prior to the diagnosis. this left the my doctor confused. he wanted to know how an active person could get diabetes). Anyway, I started the vegan plan, outlined by Neal Barnard, in mid June of 2009. By September of 2009 I went from 190lbs to 170 lbs with no exercise. My BLS went from 280 to 120. My morning readings ranged from 115-120. My highest mid day was 175. I was on the program for 22 weeks. I logged everything in a calendar. I showed my doctor and he called me a liar.(I have come to realize most doctors are idiots). I added exercise to the program about late september (running, kickboxing, caveman workouts). I dropped to 160 by November of 2009. everything was going good until I had a kidney stone. The doctor was did the operation messed up my kidney. A month before the kidney stone problem began I had a clean bill of health, which included bloodwork. My fasting blood sugar was 130, blood pressure normal, kidney function normal, liver function normal, and on and on. After the doctor messed up my kidney I gained a few pounds, which I can't lose, and I have lost kidney function. All I got for it was a sorry from the doctor.
Neal Barnard is on the right track. The program he advocates works and I can swear to that. It's not easy being vegan, but my motivation was to live healthy and not lose any limbs, or have a stroke or something. It worked. Just be careful with these doctors. I have a friend who is diabetic and he has had three doctors refuse to prescribe him insulin. It's a racket.

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Permalink Reply by Ann on March 11, 2012 at 8:19pm

Interesting! It sounds like this diet was good for weight loss--dramatic for that, even. I'm sorry you got the kidney stone and then had such a bad experience and outcome getting rid of it. I'm concerned about your blood glucose numbers. Even though you lost weight, your BG seems to have been running much higher than I would accept. To me, a program that "reverses" diabetes should at least lower and keep BG around 100 most of the time, 80-90ish for overnight fasting. I don't know what your goal was, though, or what you were doing to try to regulate it. Were you also counting carbohydrate?

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Permalink Reply by jims on March 11, 2012 at 9:47pm

Depending on ones age and the smount of offset on liver glucose release and pancreas output, while getting back to ideal numbers would be great but in fact one probably gets pancreas back up running and then needs a small boost on insulin to assist the effort.

My guess is that these diets, starvation, tight diets help unload the saturation in the tenporary storage sites of the skeletal muscles and fat cells and help enable the pancreas to go back to work. Unfortuantely while not cure, body is now slightly off and cannot get back to absolute norms.

I believe that the saturation of the skeletal muscle cells temporary glucose storage sites is what turns off the insulin response as a defense against too much glucose floating around in BG overloading muscle cells. Draw it - glucose down by tight diet and carbs control and decent exercise and see interesting fun. Vegan and vege diets should in principle dramatically reduce the glucose generation and input to body.

the tricky part here is if you are on external insulin/oral meds and manage to get pancreas back on job and insulin resistance stoppped; one will have some nasty lows and need to monitor carefully to be sure to yard the external insulin adds off/reduce when pancreas back on job doubling everything.

cgms time for safety.

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Permalink Reply by mistermister on March 12, 2012 at 12:52am

My BLS jumped around, but I read it was due to the body normalizing itself. Dr Barnard mentions it in his book in reference to the morning effect, "somgyi effect" is what it was called and it is supposed to be normal. I was in Morocco for three weeks at the beginning of 2010. I didn't take the metformin I was prescribed. I ate food I normally wouldn't eat and my BLS averaged at 99 in the morning and 125 before I went to bed. the highest reading while in Morocco was 150, after meal. I have my conclusions about that but I won't go into it.
According to Dr. Neal Barnard's book Carbs are no problem. I was eating alot of pasta, brown rice, and Quinoa. I would eat my carbs no later than 5pm. My last meal being at 8pm. I would not eat after 8pm. Sometimes my last meal would be a big green salad with chopped veggies. I also ate salad for breakfast four times a week.( try this because it is amazing. the effect on the body. My energy was great throughout the day) And I dropped weight no problem. I lost alot of muscle mass and strength. I wasn't an obese 190 lbs.
I am still vegan. I try to eat alot of greens, Kale is great. I usually start my day with warm lemon water, which cleans the liver and just makes me feel good all day. If I do have to occasional sweet treat I use coconut flour and agave to make something. Coconut flour doesn't spike the blood sugar.
My first physician prescribed metformin only. I cycled on and off of it because it damages the liver over time and the body builds up a resistance to it. I would take it for a month or two then stop and cycle back on it at a later time. The body needs recovery from all that medication contrary to what the good doctors say. I know I sound cynical but they come off as salesmen to me.
The vegan diet is a process. the body is cleaning itself of all the years of junk. My energy levels went up, and no joke about this, my libido skyrocketed.. All that sugar flushed out of my system and all I will say was that I was very surprised at the libido energy levels I was experiencing (sea vegetables does the trick I have found).
My BLS was dropped from 280 at diagnosis to 120 the highest while on the vegan diet. Maybe I wasn't clear about that. While following Barnard's plan my BLS dropped from 280 to 120. My morning readings after about a month were 105-120. Every person's body responds differently.

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Permalink Reply by mistermister on March 12, 2012 at 1:05am

one more bit of info. When I was in Morocco I learned that doctors there immediately prescribe insulin upon diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. Apparently, there is the possibility to prolong beta cell function. Insulin relieves the pancreas of the stress of being overworked. I was told many patients reversed their condition due to this. Something I think American doctors should really take note of. there is research on this in medical journals.

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Permalink Reply by jims on March 12, 2012 at 6:45am

amen to that; so do european doctors'.

No offense to drug industry as I am caught in middle.

Present metform pills great help yet 30 years on the starlix/glyburide strategy absoutely disaster.

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Permalink Reply by Ann on March 12, 2012 at 4:45pm

The only way to know whether you're having the Somogyi effect or Dawn Phenomenon is to test your BG in the middle of the night. Somogyi is caused by hypoglycemia followed by the liver's response--dumping glucose--which causes hyperglycemia. The Dawn Phenomenon is not related to hypos, but is the body's response after fasting, dumping glucose in preparation for the new day's activity. Neither phenomenon is normal for a person who doesn't have diabetes.

Liver damage caused by metformin is very rare unless the person taking it is also drinking excessive amounts of alcohol or has liver disease unrelated to diabetes. Metformin is generally considered to be a very helpful medication because it protects the heart, reduces the incidence of coronary vascular diseases and heart attacks and lowers cancer risk. It does have some unpleasant gastric side effects for many people, though. Even the extended release version of Metformin may cause some mild gastric distress. Some people adjust to the medication and are relieved of these symptoms, but others don't.

Insulin is a great thing, I agree. I use it and I'm very happy with how things are going for me.

Last week, I had my quarterly blood work done in preparation for seeing my endocrinologist tomorrow. My numbers are lovely. There's nothing in the blood tests to indicate that I have diabetes. So, in that sense, one might say that I've "reversed" it. But it's not true. As long as I eat low numbers of carbohydrates a day and use insulin to prevent my BG from spiking after meals, I'm fine. If I didn't pay attention to what I eat, I would very quickly start responding to my food as a diabetic does, with elevated blood sugar, increased insulin resistance and by putting on weight around my waist.

In time, I may be able to control diabetes through diet and exercise alone. It's a goal of mine, but I won't beat myself up if I can't achieve it. From my standpoint, the only thing that matters is being able to keep my BG at a level normal for a person who doesn't have diabetes. I will always be a diabetic.

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Permalink Reply by xring on March 12, 2012 at 8:02pm

"Metformin is generally considered to be a very helpful medication because it protects the heart, reduces the incidence of coronary vascular diseases and heart attacks and lowers cancer risk."

Without going into any risk factors with Metformin, all those side "benefits" came directly from clinical studies. That's all well & good.....until you do a bit of research & realize that the studies were funded by the pharmaceutical company that manufactures Metformin.

For interesting reading:
"The Truth About The Drug Companies; How They Deceive us & What to do About it." by Marcia Angell, MD.

"Overdo$ed America" by John Abramson, MD

"Selling Sickness" by Roy Monynihan & Alan Cassels.

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Permalink Reply by garden girl on March 21, 2012 at 4:46am

Thanks for a positive post about following a Vegan diet. I know I feel so much better following Dr Barnard's plan. Most people upon hearing the plan are so negative. Maybe I was ready for this type living. My body is changing shape, numbers dropping...I go to dr today so will have a starting point for the AC1. I've committed 3 months to give this plan a real try but I can tell you from the first 3 weeks I feel great. Thanks MisterMister for posting!

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Permalink Reply by Peetie on March 21, 2012 at 5:03am

I hope this diet works for you gardengirl. Please keep us updated on your progress. Joanne

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