Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 2:47pm

Sue, I really don't think you want to hear my opinion on that but if interested, send me a message and lets take that conversation off line. I suspect that the reply might be considered inflamatory by many on this site.

Permalink Reply by Bubbaluv on February 13, 2011 at 2:54pm

your argument up to this point isn't inflammatory?

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 3:08pm

It is all in the eyes of the beholder. If you are inflamed because someone holds a belief other than yours, I can't help that.

Permalink Reply by LaGuitariste on February 13, 2011 at 4:36pm

That's the million dollar question, Sue59, isn't it?

Since they can't be implanted in dickengel or any of the other guys who oppose embryonic stem cell research, I always wonder whom they plan to impose upon in order to turn these unwanted embryos from "potential" to "actual" living beings.

How will their biological parents feel about having their biological children (the frozen embryos) scattered around the planet, growing up as other people's children, especially the children of fundamentalists who oppose in-vitro fertilization?

Do they really want to ban in-vitro fertilization for couples who cannot conceive otherwise?

Regardless of your opinion (or mine) of in-vitro fertilization, putting that genie back in the bottle -- world-wide -- would be like trying to stop a fire hose with a tea strainer. I don't see it happening in many lifetimes.

Permalink Reply by Rebecca M. Rodick on February 13, 2011 at 2:44pm

WOW!!! You started a discussion here, for sure! [:O

When I read that 14 T1 patients in Central America (I can't remember now if it was in Brazil or ?) a few years ago, had their own stem cells transplanted and that 13 of the patients were off of Insuin Injections for two years, I was SO HOPEFULL! That meant a possilbe cure, to me.

However, before that I heard that in Canada they were on their first trial of patients receiving islet cell transplants by IV directly from a cadaver's (sp?~~Definition: dead body) pancreas to a T1's liver, I was hopefull, but thought, "How do they find that many dead bodies for all of us?"

I am more for the first listed (above) type of cure... and that's my opinion! :)

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 2:50pm

Rebecca, To the best of my knowledge there have been no human trials of and Embronic stem cell generated therapies or cures. I do think that there are some stem cell studies (nott Embronic) I think I read of one in Russia and perhaps Brazil or Canada. I fully support stem cell research as long as it is not embronic

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 3:05pm

The study I think you are referring to was in Canada and is currently being replicated in 10 centers around the world

Over the past several years, doctors have attempted to cure diabetes by injecting patients with pancreatic islet cells—the cells of the pancreas that secrete insulin and other hormones. However, the requirement for steroid immunosuppressant therapy to prevent rejection of the cells increases the metabolic demand on insulin-producing cells and eventually they may exhaust their capacity to produce insulin. The deleterious effect of steroids is greater for islet cell transplants than for whole-organ transplants. As a result, less than 8 percent of islet cell transplants performed before last year had been successful.

More recently, James Shapiro and his colleagues in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, have developed an experimental protocol for transplanting islet cells that involves using a much larger amount of islet cells and a different type of immunosuppressant therapy. In a recent study, they report that [17], seven of seven patients who received islet cell transplants no longer needed to take insulin, and their blood glucose concentrations were normal a year after surgery. The success of the Edmonton protocol is now being tested at 10 centers around the world.

Interesting non judgemental reading can be found at;Stem Cell and Diabetes

It discusses proposed investigations into a variety of both Embryonic and Non Embryonic Stem cell research

Permalink Reply by Bubbaluv on February 13, 2011 at 2:59pm

Funny, two of my comments magically disappeared.

Permalink Reply by Sue59 on February 13, 2011 at 3:04pm

Since you started this discussion online, lets keep it online for the benefit of everyone else who has been reading it ok?

But I assume these embryos being used, are not being aborted for the sole benefit of using them for research? Or do you know something that the rest of us don't know?

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 3:11pm

I don't know that it matters - If a human Embryo is being destroyed, I dont know how to rationalize it if one considers it wrong - if its wrong in situation A, its wrong in Situation B Maybe I am too simplistic but thats what I believe

Permalink Reply by Cathy Jacobson on February 13, 2011 at 3:13pm

Sir, these are YOUR ethics, they are the ones that you live by, I don't think that it is fair nor right of you to "force" someone else by the phrases of guilt that you use to believe as you do. Sorry that's what I am reading from your answers and your initial questions. It appears that you have to know from others that IF a cure was found from this research, we shouldn't take it and run, because it was done from discarded human cells. You need to be told it would be okay if you embraced this cure.
I'll give you that permission. You are okay, IF and WHEN this cure if found, and IF and WHEN it is found using human stem cells to celebrate using them to cure your diabetes.

There are many ways to obtain these cells without just killing a baby. Harvesting the umbilical cord blood, harvesting miscarriied fetus', all ways of using human stem cells, that would just go in the garbage if not used. If you are against this effort, this is what you do. Write a letter stating that IF and WHEN a cure is found IF it involves human stem cells, you do not want your life saved or you cured by this means. Have your lawyer or an attorney make copies, endorese it, notorize it, and put it in your chart with your other medical records, have one in your wallet in case of accidents, put one on file with your docs, and in your hospital charts. Make this part of your medical records. You've got your bases covered for yourself. But you can't force or belittle other people into the same idea. They have to come to their own conclusions about this sort of thing. That would be their ethics.

Permalink Reply by dickengel on February 13, 2011 at 3:25pm

Please dont confuse Stem cell research with Embronic stem cell research. I endorse Stem Cell research I just oppose the destruction of Embryos to gather the stem cells. Two seperate issues. There are even new technologies to get ordinary stem cells to act like embryonic stem cells. I also support that research.

No I am not looking for permission, I would refuse a treatment if it involved the destruction of whaty I beleive is Human Life. I am not trying to force or coerce anyone. Only trying to have an intelligent conversation on the issue and asking others their thoughts.
I do not know how you read that I am trying to force someone else to change their beleifs. If it is uncomfortable for you to read or you are bothered that I bring up the issue, perhaps there are other underlying issues. I really do not know but there is nothing wrong in bringing up the issue and taking a position. Many others take the opposite position and I do not accuse them of forcing anything, I would appreciate the same consideration.

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