Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Brush on November 24, 2009 at 8:30am

No. 115 is NOT too high. Remember that everyone's system is different. If you eat and end up staying under 140, you are doing just fine. If you want to eat veggies all day long, you can probably stay under 100, but you will be miserable, and are starving your body of nutrients that it needs. We need carbs. The "experts" report that we need at least 120 carbs per day for proper brain function. Frankly, I think they are a bit low on carbs full time :-) but the reality is, we need to eat carbohydrates or we will suffer.

Its hard to admit, but sometimes, you will hit 150. If you eat something and a scary number comes up on the meter, relax. Its not going to be the end of your kidneys. Check it in an hour, exercise a bit, and if it goes back down within the hour, call it good, and have one less bite or spoonful next time. Remember that stress adds to your BG levels, so keep things within reality. If someone can eat all the nutrients they need for the day, and stay under 120, that is good. For them. You have to find what works for you.

If you are at 130 after an hour, you did good. Few if any meters are dead on accurate, and you can only do what you are capable of. Try, test, test, try test, and keep in mind the time of day, as well as other factors like when did you exercise, how long was your meal? Sometimes in a restaurant, we might eat very slowly, and take a long time to finish the meal. This can have an effect on your numbers. Not a lot, but it might, so consider it and never take one meal/set of tests, as something repeatable.

I often have a salad for breakfast. Pretty much zero carbs. Odd sounding, but who says you can't have salad for breakfast?

FWIW, I have a George Foreman grill, and it is great for breakfast meats like bacon, sausage, and even bratwurst. Fairly clean, and simple to use. Its a smaller one, so I can't load it up with too much bacon :-) Does 3 slices which is fine with me.

If you have a Walmart (doesn't everyone anymore?) check the tortilla section. There is a brand around here that is 8 carbs. You can put cheese on it and microwave it, its not so bad to use for sandwiches instead of bread, and it wraps around brats and hot dogs pretty well. Don't forget about canned chicken (like tuna) I like it with mayo. My friend gives me grief for eating mayo because of the fat and calories. Guess what? I am only human, and can only do the best that I can.

Be good to yourself, but don't punish yourself if you bump your numbers a bit. Where you seem to be "living" is not too bad at all. Sure, the ideal would be to wake up every day at 75 and never go past 120 like a non-diabetic. Always shoot for the ideal, but realize its just the ideal. Reality says you can't do that very often.

Can't help but add that controlling your diabetes is not unlike having a child. There really is no specific manual that applies to every child, you learn as you go. Everyone raises their children differently, and most seem to turn out fine. By the time they are grown up, you have it all figured out, but by then, there is nothing you can do to change anything and what you did with your first child, doesn't seem to work with your second or third. With diabetes, you figure it out as you go, and in the end, well, you get the point. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Gerriann Tobkin on November 24, 2009 at 8:58am

I can't recall reading any posts in this discussion that advocated a no-carb diet. There is a lot written by so-called experts about how many carbs the body needs and the minimum will not be the same for everyone. So I would take any statement that advocates a hard number as the minimum with a healthy dose of skepticism.

If my bs is 130 after 1 hour, I would ask myself how much of that hour was spent over 140?

For me and me alone, 130 after 1 hour is not good or acceptable.

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Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on November 24, 2009 at 8:30am

As Joe notes, everyone is different and you may find that you are sensitive or insensitive to certain things. Some people are driven crazy by wheat. You need to keep things balanced. The advice from blood sugar 101 is and others suggest that you should keep your blood sugar below 140 mg/dl at all times. You really should not fret over the small stuff. Just worry about your number at 2 hours. Most breads are 10-20 g of carbs slice. You can choose a whole grain, high fiber, low carb and/or sprouted grain bread and you can should be able to find selections that are as low as 5-10g per slice. As you walk the bread aisle, pick up the packages and study the nutritional panel, that is your best guide.

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Permalink Reply by John Brush on November 24, 2009 at 2:52pm

"You can choose a whole grain, high fiber, low carb and/or sprouted grain bread and you can should be able to find selections that are as low as 5-10g per slice"

If you find any, please let us all know where and what it is. Never seen a slice of bread under 13-15 carbs each. Would like to tho :-)

I am told Pepperidge Farm has some that is like 10 carbs, but cannot find that anywhere in the Salt Lake City area.

I would worry about my one hour reading, as well as two. Its not unusual to exceed 140 in the first hour, and be way below 140 in the second. That time spent above 140 may not show in the A1c, but it surely is showing up in your organs.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Curwen on November 24, 2009 at 5:42pm

Hi John,

I have found a couple of "breads" in the last few days. One is a pita bread which is called "Pita Gourmet" I buy the "High Protein" version which has 10g of carbs, 5g fibre & 5g protein... I think the fibre cancels the carbs for a net carbs of 5g carbs per half pita. I only use half for the 5 grams and stuff it with turkey, cheese & lettuce... Its been my favorite meal so far!

I have also found a bread called Dimpflmeier although I think they are both Canadian... This bread has 24g carbs & 6g fibre per 2 slices so 9 net carbs per slice? I had a piece of this today with peanut butter and raised 25 points... Good/Bad I'm not sure but think thats acceptable?

Thanks again for your feedback... I appreciate it all... Paul

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Permalink Reply by Gerriann Tobkin on November 24, 2009 at 8:45am

Hey Paul...I don't think 115 is too high... it is higher than I want to be and I actively work to lower it.

For me...115 is too high for a goal.

I like peanut butter on a small apple. Try to find peanut butter with no sugar added.

Keep in mind that lots of vegetables are high carb and all fruit has carbs...some more than others.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Curwen on November 24, 2009 at 5:27pm

Thanks Gerriann,

I tried a piece of whole grain toast with peanut butter and it raised my BS 25 points. I don't think that's too bad for a little enjoyment in food? But then again I'm new to all of this. What do you think?

About the vegetable... You are right. My wife bought some bean sprouts and when I looked at the packet this evening I noticed they had 18g of carbs per 100ml... Yikes...

Thanks again for your comments, Paul

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Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on November 24, 2009 at 7:34pm

If you have a fasting blood sugar of 80-90 mg/dl then a blood sugar rise fo 25 points is great. If you have a blood sugar rise of 100 mg/dl, but return reliably to undere 100 mg/dl 2 hours after eating, that is also great. Everyone (including non-diabetics) will experience a blood sugar rise when they eat carbs. You are no different. Just don't think you need to place unrealistic expectations on yourself, particularly expectations that don't really help you. Don't seek to spike your blood sugar to obscene levels, but if you return to 100 mg/dl or less at 2 hours after eating, then you are going great!

ps. A cup of raw bean sprouts is 6.2 g of carbs with nearly 2g fiber for a net 4.2 g of carbs. You should be able to eat 3-4 cups with comfort, enough to fill your plate and spill on the floor.

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Permalink Reply by John Brush on November 24, 2009 at 8:41pm

non diabetics do not see 100 point rises in their blood sugar. Ever. If they do, they have a problem, or are standing on the ledge of a problem.

not good to go about saying non-diabetics spike anywhere near 100 points. A healthy pancreas can pump out all the insulin you need.

They told this story to my mom. She would test near 200 several times a day, and they said it was because she ate half a dozen milky ways from the vending machine in the managed care facility. No. She was diabetic, but at her age, the doctor didn't make a big deal of it. Would have been nice if he had told the family tho, since genetics plays a part in all of this, and I was of the impression that no one in my family was diabetic.

Might have been good information I could have acted upon sooner had I known.

John

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Permalink Reply by Paul Curwen on November 25, 2009 at 5:00am

Hey John,

And here is the problem for me... The more I research the more I realize that some people say 115 is too high for them while others say a spike of 100 is ok as long as it comes down after an hour. Lots of different opinions to what is acceptable... At this point I'm still unsure but starting to get a better picture...

I think I'm going to go with the numbers at Blood Sugar 101 and try to keep them somewhere between 120-140, 1-2 hours after a meal...

Are you on meds?

Thanks, Paul

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on November 25, 2009 at 5:34am

Blood sugar 101 has a great chart showing normal blood sugar reactions to meals and a 100 mg/dl rise is actually "normal."

I spent quite a bit of time mucking around with my testing and diet regime. I found that my peak occurred at 1 hour and I spent quite a bit of energy on a very low carb diet working to keep all of my peaks below 140 mg/dl. In the end, that effort had virtually no effect on my HbA1c. I certainly would not argue that high blood sugars are damaging, but keeping your blood sugar below 140 mg/dl two hours after eating constitutes "good" control.

Certainly your point is well taken, and if you eat every hour or two, spiking your blood sugar, that will have a clearly bad effect over time, but transient rises for three short periods of time for your main meals are a probably a secondary concern.

When I was new to diabetes, I wanted to do everything as perfectly as possible so I could evade every bad thing that could happen. But doing that can be a serious pain. You need to balance all the cr*p you have to deal with. I've decided not to worry about the rises at 1 hour. If they are too high, they will be reflected in my 2 hour numbers and I will have to start taking action.

Permalink Reply by John Brush on November 25, 2009 at 9:25pm

Something weird with the forum, as this message had no place for me to choose REPLY, so here it is, once again :-)
---------------------
Hey John,

And here is the problem for me... The more I research the more I realize that some people say 115 is too high for them while others say a spike of 100 is ok as long as it comes down after an hour. Lots of different opinions to what is acceptable... At this point I'm still unsure but starting to get a better picture...

I think I'm going to go with the numbers at Blood Sugar 101 and try to keep them somewhere between 120-140, 1-2 hours after a meal...

Are you on meds?
---------------------------------------------

I am not on any meds.

You are doing the right thing trying to stay between 120-140 1-2 hours after you eat. I guess some people can stay beneath 115 all of the time, but I think there is some medication involved in that, because even non-diabetics will bump up towards 120 with a heavy meal, albeit briefly. Unless you are on meds, its unrealistic to think a diabetic can have the same numbers as a diabetic. On the other hand, we are all different, so I suppose anything is possible, but not for me.

I think a spike of 100 is a problem, unless you started out at 35 :-) Still, I think our bodies are pretty resilient for the most part. If a number comes up in the 180s for part of an hour, I have no idea what the long term effect of that is, and frankly, I don't think anyone else does either. Unless you figure to keep eating whatever did that to you, I wouldn't pay it much more attention than making a note that its not a good food for you. I take some solace in noting that even when I screw up and bang up against 160 or so, within an hour, I am back at or under 100, so some parts of my system still work pretty well. I just don't want to force it, and use up whatever good stuff I have at the moment. Might need it one day :-)

Time was, 180 was the number to stay under. Now its 140. Who knows where they come up with this stuff? When you figure meters, even in labs, can be 20% out of wack, those two numbers could well be the same, depending on the meter and strips.

BP of 140/75 used to be okay, now its 125/70. Stick around, and they will want us all at 100/50 :-)

I think what you see on bloodsugar101 is the right place to shoot for. Its hard, so don't go thinking that a big spike is the end of life.

I have not been over 200 that I know of, since I was dx'd and took the fasting test. Been up in the 180s a few times, but its been a long time since I went much past 150. I feel okay about that. Good grief, we do have to live, and in order to do that, we have to experiment and test, test, test.

Your breakfast muffin seems like a good thing. Glad you have a wife who is supportive and willing to help you stay healthy. Take good care of her. Such are hard to find.

Happy Thanksgiving!

John

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