It has been my perception for some time that Tudiabetes has a pro-low-carb slant. Which is fine with me since Tu does allows discussion and rebuttal of the issue from all points of view. But it appears that Tu is becoming more stridently pro-low-carb than it has been before, and I think this is worthy of discussion.
There was a recent popular discussion here that was getting personal and out of hand, so it was closed to comment. Again, that is fine with me; all forums have the right to make judgement calls and close discussions when they become too heated.
But I do have a problem with an Admin then coming onto a closed topic so that they can insert their own personal pro-low-carb opinion which will be the official last word. And since it was added under the anonymous Tu Administration account, it therefore serves as Tudiabete's official opinion on the issue.
I am referring to the discussion with a Mom who's 8 year old daughter is apparently in a honeymoon period, and is not being given any insulin LINK HERE
And after closing this discussion so that no one can contribute, a Tu Admin has just added a final post, stating "While the general rule is that the younger the individual, the shorter the honeymoon, each individual is different and we here at TuDiabetes respect that YDMV (Your Diabetes May Vary). The honeymoon phase in children usually lasts 3-6 months, but a low-carb diet could certainly extend it beyond that timeframe. " LINK HERE (emphasis added)
What's extraordinary about this statement is, first, that the Mom who started this discussion was not even feeding her daughter a low-carb diet. So has Tu decided to step into the discussion by advising the Mom that the diet she was feeding her daughter could be improved if she made it more Bernstein low-carb acceptable? If so, that strikes me as quite a public statement for Tu to be making.
The second extraordinary thing about this statement is that there is no medical evidence that I can find to back up this statement. No study has been done that indicates that a low-carb diet can extend the honeymoon phase. Nor did I see any evidence of this come out during the discussion. So this belief in the benefit of low-carb is apparently Tu's pure opinion - but it is unfortunately being stated as fact.
The third extraordinary thing about this statement is that this statement promoting low-carb eating is made instead of statements relaying the two generally accepted ways of prolonging the honeymoon phase that appear in the literature - namely intensive insulin treatment and tight blood glucose control. It is easy to find statements to this effect in the literature including the ever present DCCT study LINK HERE plus many more.
So if Tu is going to decide to shut down a discussion and leave advice for the parent of a newly diagnosed young diabetic (and thereby leave advice for anyone googling and reading this discussion in the future), wouldn't it be better to leave advice that has some medical evidence backing it up?
I find this very disappointing. Do you agree?
"its only all opinion at the end of the day...."
If this is truly the case then after the post was locked down there should not have been an additional post unless it was directed at someone getting out of hand within the thread. It makes not one bit of difference what the original thread is about.
I ask those of you who say to Jag: if it was not about low carb you wouldn't have cared- well what if it was about feeding her high carb and you did not have a chance to respond would you care? Would it be ok? If you do support it I ask: When do i get to be admin so I can post what I want and lock it for no one to be able to respond to me? I actually agree with that final post in that thread but I do not agree with the thought that someone posting as Tu Admin can go into a locked thread and post another "opinion".
Well, I have now read the whole original thread. I believe that you really love to argue, Jeremiah, and that it gives you pleasure to be in the spotlight for awhile. I have been around many, many folks for whom such things are important. Good luck. I hope you don't acquire ulcers in your pursuit of strokes for your argumentative and rather offensive path through life.
In the original post nobody ever seemed to be able to post anything that you could tolerate.... It seems to me Shana is doing a serious, educated process to help her daughter.....Sigh.....Judith in Portland.....
PS. My beloved sister said to me once: You really don't have to have an opinion about everything! I think I should have remebered that before pressing add reply, but okay.....
Well, I have now read the whole original thread. I believe that you really love to argue, Jeremiah, and that it gives you pleasure to be in the spotlight for awhile.
Jeremiah, I agree with a few but disagree with more of the things you say, but I detest the way you say all of them in that thread. Ad hominem is the last resort that I reserve for attacking snake oil peddlers and similar invaders of forums; it should never be used on real members of this community or any other. It is obvious you felt strongly about the health of the child. In that case persuasion and education was far more likely to be beneficial to the child than disparagement and sneers about nutjobs.
Jag, I have some reservations about the moderation in that thread, but I am comfortable with the result. Your long diatribe would have been better sent privately to the the moderators in the first instance. It should only have appeared here if that failed to elicit the an appropriate response. I know how tough it can be to be part of a moderation team and trying to walk a difficult narrow path to maintain forum harmony. Moderators are fallible humans too and deserve the right to sort out any perceived problems privately as a first option; that is also usually the best option for the forum as a whole.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
I just read all THAT thread: I think that mother was NOT doing bad at all.
Early soon in THAT thread someone stepped into and stopped hearing others and talked to himself and adopted a bad attitude.
This one took everybody offtopic, and put to silence that mother.
That's bad, she should have been welcomed and listened to.
The admin closed that thread and the only mistake she did was to add" but a low-carb diet could certainly extend it beyond that timeframe".
It's true Shana did a low glicemic diet, not low carb, but many started talking between themself forgetting about Shana drama.
"That one" think Shana is a layer, Shana was actually thinking something else from what she was saying, and so on.
This attitude leads to nothing.
Someone has to stop trying to save the world.
Hi: The original discussion got very out of hand, and that saddened me. We had a new member of TuD, OP Shana, who I personally felt was not given the support and compassion she deserves. I just think we need to be gentle with all people especially people new to TuD and new to diabetes. Yes, it is okay for a newly diagnosed Type 1 diabetic who is honeymooning to not be on exogenous insulin (extreme caution should be used, of course, because there are dangers). Unfortunately, we have seen a number of newly diagnosed Type 1s and parents of newly diagnosed Type 1s who are desperate to stay off of insulin and do dangerous things to avoid insulin. I don't believe that was the case with Shana; I think her eyes are wide open.
Jag1, I agree with you, I have never seen any studies that have looked at using low carb to preserve beta cell function in newly diagnosed Type 1s. The effective and proven technique is tight glucose control using intensive insulin therapy (and intensive insulin therapy is quite different in the newly diagnosed with remnant beta cell function). MelissaBL apologized. But I wholeheartedly agree that discussion needed to be shut down. And I would say that the low carb gang here on TuD is quite vocal! I have both learned from them and found via my own experiments that very low carb is a very bad thing for me personally.
Bottom line, IMO it is best if we are compassionate with one another, especially important that we are sensitive with new people, and allow differences of opinion.
The non low carb gang here is also quite vocal. This is good, to me the value of a forum like this is that a person can evaluate a range of options and pick a course forward. What is not good is when we start attacking one another.
I hope that we can at least agree that its sad that a new member was attacked almost immediately after posting a question in the hope of benefiting from the experience of folks who have already walked the path she has just embarked upon. I'm sure this was not what she was expecting from us.
I think there is a lot of medical evidence of low-carbing, indeed zero-carbing, prolonging life in T1 diabetic children who aren't taking insulin. Most of it comes before the discovery of insulin. Some of the doctors names are famous: Joslin, Allen, Woodyatt. Some T1 children lived for a year or more on their very strict diets.
Bliss' _The Discovery of Insulin_ has some very disturbing pictures from that era, of what kids undergoing those treatments looked like. When paired with pictures of the same kids after they started insulin, it makes a pretty convincing argument to me what the best choice is.
Excellent points, Tim.
I'm not sure so much about the evidence so much saying that carb control helps T1 people but more that it helps people which, after all, we all are? It might be easier for PWD to accumulate data and personal experience supporting that contention because it's right there on your meter?
It's my hope that this thread has resolved the concerns of the community and that everyone has had a chance to say their piece.
It was a complete misunderstanding that I understood the debate to be about low-carb (rather than low-GI or whatever). My priority as an administrator, always, is to protect and support members and to foster encouraging dialogue. Our official response is always that YDMV and no changes to your regimen should be made without consultation with your medical team.
In our community, we welcome (and have support groups for) all dietary choices here - Vegan, Raw, low-anything, high-anything. My comment, for which I've more than apologized, was not a recommendation but a defense of what I thought the commenter was advocating. From an administrative standpoint, I believe we would have defended any dietary choice the poster suggested as long as she was caring for her child as described.
Our team is charged with upholding community values and we work night and day volunteering to do just that. Not every decision will be popular, not every decision will be accomplished effectively, but we do what we do so that you are able to enjoy the community here. If you don't enjoy it, you are free to seek support where you do.
I'm always available to speak to specific concerns you have about our team, how it works, etc. I hate these accusatory threads that pop up occasionally, but, you will notice, we have allowed the dialogue to continue so that we may understand and address your concerns. Each admin has been watching this thread, as we did the thread in question (we attempt to monitor every post to the community), and we have already had to take action regarding some people's interactions here.
Personally, I hope that this thread can taper to a close and we may return to the business of supporting one another in our lives with diabetes.
Melissa, I think we should all just go back and re-read your sentence on Page 1 of this thread: "all of our admins are volunteers and members first".
Admins aren't elected officials or chief executives looking to skew perceptions for personal gain. Admins aren't paid employees who are reviewed and compensated based on their performance. Admins aren't even impartial outsiders. Admins are regular members, people with diabetes just like you and me, who are dedicated to helping and serving a community of people touched by diabetes.
Melissa and the other admins are trying to do their best to stimulate debate and keep the peace, while also participate in the community at the same time. It's a tough job, and a thankless one. Sometimes, I think admins may move away from the "member" role entirely so as to not put themselves in a position that may pose a conflict of interest.
At this point, my thoughts on the "accusations" in this thread are irrelevant. But I do know that Melissa and the other admins try their hardest to make this an open, friendly community, and to that end, they're doing a damn good job.
Thanks, Scott. I, too, am constantly amazed at how well our Admins do. I taught at a private school for five years in the 70s. I was a dorm parent for senior boys and an Advisor for senior girls. It was like trying to "herd cats"------I think our "flounders" and our Admin folks do an admirable job of trying to herd all 21,000 of us BS-challenged cats!!!