Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Natalie ._c- on June 28, 2011 at 5:40am

I don't know what Dr. B has to say, but I also noticed the disappearance of the DP when I went lower carb. I haven't had to give up carbs completely, but just giving up the real baddies has made a huge difference for me.

I'll be interested to watch your progress! :-)

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on June 28, 2011 at 6:47am

I actually don't believe you can really practically do a "zero" carb diet. I've tried it and generally found no advantage over 6-12-12 (and actually I don't find any difference between 30 and 50g/day). There is actually a zero carb community, but for the most part I believe zero is an illusion. If you eat cheese or eggs, you are eating carbs.

My experience is that while reducing carbs flattened out my postprandial response and reduced my DP, only insulin was ever able to bring my morning numbers down towards normal range. I suspect that your improved DP may not be due to low carb, but a result of better basal insulin coverage overnight. I actually seem to need dramatically more insulin overnight to suppress my DP, three times the level I take during the day. You take Lantus, which is flat. Dropping the carbs (and the weight) may have reduced your basal needs. This may have resulted in a basal dose that was finally high enough to suppress your DP, but in the end will be too high, causing ongoing lows.

Only time will tell.

Permalink Reply by rubidoux on June 28, 2011 at 10:20am

I don't eat eggs. I usually eat 2 or 3 slices of cheddar cheese that has 3/4 g of cho per slice, so the most carbs I get in a day is 2.25 g. Sometimes I don't have any cheese at all and I do have a true zero carb day. But I'm not really that interested in the number of carb grams as long as my diet is working for me, and this is working for me. I think it's important for me that if I have carbs they don't come from grains or fruits or carby veg.

For me, it is a huge benefit that I don't crave carbs or get the munchies when I eat this way. I am much better at sticking with this than I am at the 6-12-12. And I'm not miserable doing it. And that is just huge. I am eating very cleanly -- no permissible (ie, low carb) junk food, no carb creep. And I don't think about food all the time the way I did when I was shooting for 30 g a day. I don't sit around daydreaming about what I can have at my next meal or snack or try to think of ways to make my 12 g seem more like chocolate cake or vanilla pudding. I don't agonize over whether one really has to count leafy greens. How could more leafy greens be bad for you, after all?

I'm wondering if, since you saw no advantage in eating this way, if maybe you didn't have these problems.

As for whether you can really practically do it... I'm doing it, so I'm not sure what the debate there would be about. I suppose it's possible that I won't be able to sustain it for the rest of my life, but I think I am more likely to keep this up than some kind of low cal plan or the 6-12-12. It feels much more comfortable to me than any other way of eating that was good for my blood sugar. I'd love to sit around eating chocolate cake all day, but that's not really an option.

I suppose it's possible that my lantus is covering my dawn phenomenon. I'm not sure it really matters in the end whether the woe is obliterating my DP or just making it so that I can cover it with lantus. Either way, it's pretty nice not having to worry about it all day. And I am pretty certain I would not have been able to cover my DP with lantus while eating carbs. But it would be kinda cool if it turned out that eating this way resulted in no DP at all.

And, btw, I wouldn't really recommend that zeroing in on health forum if there's anyone interested in reading about this woe. I'm sure there's a lot of good info there, but the guy who runs it is a little nutty. This one's a lot better: http://forum.dirtycarnivore.com/index.php .

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on June 28, 2011 at 1:08pm

I will admit, for the most part, under a low carb diet, I lose my appetite and cravings. If I had cravings, that would be a huge problem. My family has not followed low carb, my pantry is filled with carb heaven. But instead, I really have to concentrate on eating when I am supposed to and cleaning my plate.

I think you are right, that forum is a little out there, I've tended to gravitate towards more of the paleo forums lately. And in closing, I'd like to note the ultimate icon of zero carb, and give a shout out to "The Bear." He passed away just this last year, and apparently lived on meat, seafood, eggs, butter and cheese since 1959. He died in an automobile accident this last spring. May he rest in peace.

Permalink Reply by rubidoux on June 28, 2011 at 1:21pm

I was really sad when I read about The Bear. I'm sure it was sad for him and his family, of course. But also a sad end to an experiment. It sure would have been interesting to see how he did in his old age. I think I read that he was in his seventies when he died.

My family isn't low carb, either, and that certainly doesn't help. My husband is a wanna be vegetarian and he is pretty sure that all that low fat/low cal stuff from the 70s is just right for him. He did shockingly say recently that he hasn't seen me look this healthy and energetic in years and he's coming to terms with the fact that this seems best for me. I do think he'd have loved it if I could have controlled my blood sugar and my weight by "eating sensible portions". But, man my little ones really like carbs and the ones that I have in the house for them can really trip me up. I have debated about banning them altogether, but it is hard with a husband who's not on board.

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on June 28, 2011 at 3:31pm

The "experiment." Interesting, I always thought of it as a "Test."

My kids don't follow low carb and my wife by her own admission is a carb addict. For years, she has rebelled against my diet. But she has recently decided to take up the Atkins diet. I'm really proud of her, she is losing significant weight. So for now, I can cook three meals instead of four.

Permalink Reply by Natalie ._c- on June 28, 2011 at 3:59pm

I was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, a carb addict -- I think it's more common to be one than not. But as long as I assiduously avoid the evil six -- bread, rice, potatoes, cereal, corn and peas, I do pretty well. I'm about halfway through Taubes' Good Calories Bad Calories, and the studies on dietary change and the "diseases of civilization" is pretty convincing. I just need to get myself to increase the vegetables in my diet.

Permalink Reply by rubidoux on June 29, 2011 at 2:30pm

I find that people who aren't carb addicts have no idea what I'm talking about. My dh loves to eat and has battled his weight a bit, but is definitely not addicted to carbs.

I'm loving the Taubes book, but I have no time to read. It's driving me crazy!

Permalink Reply by Cosumne Jan on July 5, 2011 at 7:59pm

It's hard, but I kept sweets and "crap" carbs out of the house for the first year and it really helped me get a good foundation. Now they can have chips or something around here - which they only do occasionally because they had to learn to eat better - and it does not bother me at all. I really got a worse reaction when I threw the TV away, which I saw as high carb for the mind.

Permalink Reply by BadMoonT2 on June 28, 2011 at 10:02am

Thanks for the update. Interesting to hear that even 20 to 30 g/day of carbs was causing hunger, also your observation on DP.
Keep us posted.

Permalink Reply by andrea on June 29, 2011 at 8:43am

hi! i follow a very low carb diet. but it is a bit different than yours because i was never a big meat eater. i eat tons of spinach, almonds, tofu, steak, and small amounts of cheese. that is basically what my diet consists of and i do not mind eating the same thing every day, in fact, i love it! i have lost 20 pounds in the last year eating this way and i am stuck now at a plateau of about 3 months! i was wondering...do you think if ate the way you do; just burgers and bacon, without the spinach, i would start to lose again? i like the spinach because it is a healthy thing to fill up on and only 9 carbs per bag with 8 grams of fiber. what are your suggestions!!

Permalink Reply by Brian (bsc) on June 29, 2011 at 11:06am

I have to say, if you have been following a Bernstein level low carb diet, I would really be surprised if tightening up your diet to reduce carbs broke your plateau. Just my opinion.

Perhaps you should try some things to switch things up. What about Intermittent Fasting. Choose a day each week to do a 24 hour fast. What I do is on Saturday or Sunday, skip breakfast(s), morning snack, lunch and afternoon snack. You basically don't eat from Friday dinner to Sat dinner. Then just eat however much you are hungry for.

Just a thought.

And jeez, you already look thin in your picture, I almost feel bad about giving you tricks to lose weight.

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