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Comment by onesaint on October 29, 2010 at 11:27am

Im with you on that one BadMoon. Understanding what all the pathways and breakdowns that fats can do is way out of my understanding. Initially, I thought, well, we know 10% can be truned to glucose. Also that there are fatty acids that get used, then... Um... and thus ends my understanding. Maybe bsc or Gerri could chime in there. =^) Ill have to keep my eyes peeled for that book.

Being that were low carbers, I would have to say yes, protein is definitely our preferred option. =^)

Thanks! Im gearing up for my Endo appt / argument. Shes fresh meat in the medical world so Im going to give her D solution and ask her to read it.Hopefully broaden her understanding of D.

Comment by BadMoonT2 on October 29, 2010 at 11:25am

Gerri, you say it much more succinctly than I.

Comment by BadMoonT2 on October 29, 2010 at 11:12am

onesaint
Nice link giving a lucid explanation of the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis a topic which always seems to provoke heated argument on diabetes forums. But I guess that's why you and I aren't dead from our "extreme diet" I'm going to file it away for use the next time this topic comes up.

Re "The options then are increase protein or carbs right?" As I understand It that's what Dr. B would say, but for us carbs are a poor choice leaving protein as the preferred option.

There are people who say fat doesn't make you fat. I must admit at this point its beyond my limited understanding of human metabolism to have an opinion on that one. Gary Taubes has a new book coming out soon concerning this that might shed some light on this topic.

Comment by Gerri on October 29, 2010 at 10:49am

Yep, carbs or protein to gain weight.

Comment by onesaint on October 29, 2010 at 10:36am

Agreed. My SG has never been so good as it has since I started eating low carb. This stuff can be daunting to understand. Really I think Dr. B could have made 5 books with all the information in just that one.

Ok, so it is the keytomes themselves replacing glucose as the energy source for organs that will accept it. Its then less about glucose being the only source of energy and the body having alternatives. THIS gives a good description as well.

I would suppose one would need to increase glucose or fat stores to add weight. The options then are increase protein or carbs right?

Comment by BadMoonT2 on October 29, 2010 at 4:28am

In the absence of glucose (from whatever source) the body will burn fatty acids, through a different metabolic pathway. A byproduct of fatty acid metabolism is keytones which can in turn be utilized as energy especially by the heart and brain.

It's all very complicated and and open to differing interpretations by those of us without degrees in biochemistry.

I've not exactly mastered the weight loss part myself, but I tend to go with DR. B. on this one because he is so spot on regarding controlling blood glucose.

Comment by onesaint on October 28, 2010 at 10:07pm

Ok, for gaining weight (or loosing it) protein should be increased (or decreased). I think in my initial thinking, an increase in fat consumption would reduce the amount of fat stores utilized for energy building (not as as glucose itself mind you). But, Im starting to think in accordance with what you all are saying, that with protein reduction, and the assumption that carbs arent a main source of glucose, your body starts to burn the fat stores for that 10% that becomes glucose (glycerol to glucose).

Im leaning towards this thinking because with the high amount of fat we consume, that should be getting used to provide energy to the body for building/converting glucose and 10% (of the fat) should be getting turned into glucose itself. Either that or keytones themselves start to replace the glucose in your system. That said, it doesnt make sense for the body to burn fat to replace carbs because there is no pathway for more than 10% of fats to be turned into glucose.

Comment by Brian (bsc) on October 28, 2010 at 7:06am

I do think that if you want to gain muscle mass you need to feed muscle growth with circulating amino acids (protein). Insulin also regulates the uptake of protein. You get circulating amino acids by eating protein.

Comment by BadMoonT2 on October 28, 2010 at 6:24am

The reason adding protein would work is that approximately 58% of protein is converted to glucose. But it's glucose that is released slowly and thus is more diabetic friendly. In the absence of sufficient carbs the body will first burn fat and then start consuming muscle(protein). If you are thin (wish I was that lucky) you have limited fat reserves so you will loose muscle mass.

The corollary of this principle according to Dr. B is that to loose weight when following his program you cut protein, thus decreasing total available glucose and causing your body to burn fat.

Comment by Brian (bsc) on October 28, 2010 at 5:49am

Gerri is right, if you read Dr. B, he says to increase protein to gain weight. I think his guidance on protein is actually low, I've taken in as much as 250g of protein/day. It is not like I've become a blimpo, but as I did weight training I wanted to fuel muscle growth and to do that you need protein.

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