Abrupt Onset Type 2 Diabetics

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Abrupt Onset Type 2 Diabetics

For T2 diabetics whose diabetes came on suddenly with high A1c's and high FBS's. It then resolved itself in about 9 months after medication and change in diet. Our diabetes shouldn't be about its endpoint but the suddenness and severity of its onset.

Website: http://ketosisprone.blogspot.com/
Members: 14
Latest Activity: May 21

The essential graphs of Abrupt onset T2


These graphs tell the story of Abrupt Onset T2. There really is no significant progression in A1c then in the space of 9 months, it zooms out of control. The converse is true as well. It will go from out of control in 9 months to near normal with proper meds and diet.

I am coming to understand that this isn’t a diabetes of loss but derangement. T1’s lose their beta cells. T2’s lose their insulin sensitivity. Abrupt diabetics don’t lose anything but the ability of their internal systems to communicate effectively with each other due to hyperglycemia. The people I’ve talked to are all over the place. For some it’s the liver putting out glucose, for others it’s counter regulatory hormones forcing up blood sugars. Insulin production shuts down under these conditions because, as I’ve come to believe, insulin has more restraints on it. Too much insulin will kill you in a day but hyperglycemia takes years. There is a failsafe in the body for insulin.

The body has many ways to raise blood sugar but actually only one to bring them down in terms of hormones. These systems are in a delicate dance but once they stop communicating the dance becomes chaos. Stopping the hyperglycemia, in most cases, simply brings back communication. This is the reason they can so quickly go back into remission. The pieces aren’t missing, they simply aren’t in sync. My little experiments on myself have allowed me to see that.

Diabetes Forum

Proposing another type of diabetes

Started by Michael Barker. Last reply by Michael Barker May 21. 5 Replies

You guys have experienced it because you've been DKA but this is a far wider phenomenon. Sudden onset with sudden reversal is very common. It doesn't get talked about but this is another way of…Continue

Abrupt Type 2 Diabetes Onset and 1st Phase Insulin Response

Started by Michael Barker. Last reply by Linda G Jan 11, 2011. 1 Reply

Put this up on the blog but this especially pertains to you folksI've titled this "Abrupt Type 2 Diabetes Onset" because I'm am coming to believe that very different types of diabetics have this and…Continue

Ketone Strips

Started by Pauly Sep 6, 2010. 0 Replies

Can you give an explanation how to use the Ketone Strips from the drug store.  I often get middle readings @40 mg/dl. The directions say call your Dr at this level as this is dangerous.  When this…Continue

Multi-Tissue insulin insulin resistance in KPD's

Started by Michael Barker. Last reply by Michael Barker Aug 30, 2010. 2 Replies

 Multi-Tissue resistance in KPD'sI've been away doing research and other things but now I'm back.KPD's don't have enough insulin therefore the body hovers at a high bg level. I originally was going…Continue

Tags: 1b, atypical, insulin, resistance, Type

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Comment by Michael Barker on December 5, 2010 at 10:44am
I should have really changed this long time ago since it's not about going DKA. Apparently many people don't go DKA. They do, however, feel like they are dying when the blood sugars shoot up there and they certainly will die with a short unhappy life.

So you can have this but never get to DKA. What we all hold in common is the speed in which in comes on and the speed in which it resolves.
Comment by Hello Cupcake It's Me on September 14, 2010 at 10:13pm
I was hospitilized in 2008 with DKA and a GAP of 32, my sugars were 1500, and I was on the verge of death. The group of doctors who were on constant watch never saw anyone who was lucid with GAP's and sugars like mine and wasn't in a coma or even dead.
I recently started a blog about how I am changing my lifestyle and thing that work for me. I urge you and any reader to check it out, www.hellocupcakeitsme.com

M. Peterson
www.hellocupcakeitsme.com
Comment by Michael Barker on August 13, 2010 at 3:04pm
No, I haven't forgot about you guys. I've just been researching like crazy. Here's one thing that I fell across that you should know.

The typical relapse back to DKA starts with an A1c of about 6.5. It can take off very fast from there. That is the danger zone for KPD's.

It is interesting that this is also the magic 140 that we need to keep our blood sugars below. So there you go.
Comment by Michael Barker on February 22, 2010 at 11:16pm
Troy, you need to look at the new info I've put on the website. You would be considered a A-B+ ketosis prone diabetic. There is no limit on remission time for your type. They have followed people for years and they are still in remission especially the skinny ones.

We don't have to lose beta cell functioning but there is a caveat. We are subject to glucose toxicity at a near extreme level. As I see it, remission may be possible but unless you are very good, the post prandial excursions will wittle down your pancreas function over time and you blood sugars will rise. The beta cells will still be there but they will be turned off and more and more will get turned off with time then it's back to DKA land.

I am presently looking into CoQ10 as a possible way of reversing liver IR. It's a little complex right now but I'm getting there.

Mike

PS I'm wondering about the things that you see are different about you other KPD's?
Comment by Type2Runner on February 22, 2010 at 8:53am
Hey Mike,

I was able to get through the article you pointed me to: Narrative Review: Ketosis Prone Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus.

Great article and I see a lot of what happened to me there. Of course as we discussed earlier, diabetes, of any type, is pretty idiopathic, so there were some things there that didn't seem to reflect what was happening with me. But the two keys obviously were the DKA onset and the lack of auto-antibody markers.

It looks like I was probably in "remission" (their definition -- off all meds, treating with diet and exercise) briefly, but have been on Met for the last 5 years.

The real thing for me to look at here, both in the short term while training for a May marathon, and in the long term (managing glucose numbers for the long haul), is what information this provides me in how I should handle my medication management. This leads me to the fact I need to set up an appointment with an Endo, which i haven't seen since my diagnosis 5 years ago.

I'm currently taking 500 mg met in the morning, and 1000 in the evening. Right now I feel pretty comfortable with my regimine, as my fasting numbers are usually anywhere from 90s to mid 1teens. The running and walking ( I have four dogs, we average about 25 miles walking a week) obviously help with the insulin sensitivity and uptake, but if I am KPT2, then my insulin production levels are going to continue to decline.

By the way, I am currently taking 2000 mg of Vitamin D and 1000 of calcium. Both are pretty important for type 2 diabetics of the Northern tribe.....

Troy
Comment by Michael Barker on February 21, 2010 at 7:19pm
Comment by Michael Barker on February 21, 2010 at 2:58pm
So the question I would have for you, wil v, what's your c-peptide at? The only way I can see you using carbs like you do is that you have to be having a pretty good insulin secretion going.
Comment by Pauly on February 20, 2010 at 6:43am
Mike I know Dr B talks about an adrenaline response that raises blood sugar when you exercise. I am on 3 blood pressure meds and now have normal blood pressure finally. I was on a 4th but I didnt like that pill as it made me dizzy.

My lipid profile has improved on the low carb diet. For some reason yesterday was really bad on my numbers but today they are better. Fasting 95, 1hr post 133 2 hour post 116. Thats on 3 pieces of cheese and 2 small pieces of sirloin. It will take me another 2 hours to get back t These are still two high on meals as far as I am concerned after two hours. still peeing Ketones....
Comment by PatientX on February 19, 2010 at 10:18pm
Good question Mike. I wondered that too. I was wondering if the insulin was doing the work while the pancreas was recovering. I also wonder how much does stress play on all of the equation. I do see that the more excercise I do the better the numbers get even to the point where I am going low. Also I wonder if I would be on insulin during weight loss program would I eventually drop the need for insulin all together and return to another few years with no meds or insulin. I dropped 30 pounds during my first 3 months of diagnosis and numbers really seemed to be correcting on the next 9 months.
Comment by Michael Barker on February 19, 2010 at 8:28pm
I have really not dropped a lot of weight, I am within 5 to 10 pounds of what I was when I was on insulin vs now. I am looking at dropping 30 pounds to deal with high blood pressure and cholesterol. But I can go on a bike ride and leave at 220

There are two things here that I'm wondering about. The first is the highness of blood sugar at the start of vigorous excercise. I find my numbers are up above 200. Have others found this to be true.

The other thing is insulin. It seems that those who DKA'd and went on insulin have lower blood sugars. I went on Met and my numbers average around 100 to 110. The procedure for KPD's should be insulin initially then Met. This is because the reason that we went high is because our pancreas shutdown due to high blood sugars. The name for this is glucose toxicity. Your blood sugars rise and it causes your pancreas to stop working. We become type 1's.
What I'm wondering about is whether the insulin eliminates all the effects of glucose toxicity and brings the pancreas all the way back therefore the blood sugars are lower. What then happens is that the c-pep number nearly doubles.
Just wondering.

Mike
 

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