Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Zolar1 on January 11, 2011 at 5:06pm

Try dividing up your meals more. Eat the sum total of your daily caloric intake evenly divided over a 12 hour period.
That can raise your metabolism.

Permalink Reply by Lee on January 11, 2011 at 6:35pm

zolar - I believe that the idea to spread out our food consumption does not necessarily allow for weight control and would require a strict timing of the bolus insulin pre meal.

Weight gain or loss usually depends on amount of carbs, type of carbs, and how much exercise we do each day. Of course, our system reacts differently on an individual basis.

Then too , if we were to spread out our intake of food, it seems we would have to take injections of bolus insulin more often! That could mess up one's daily routine and free time for sure!.

Besides, Lantus or Levemir are not taken to control weight and cover our carb count. It is a basal insulin that helps maintain control between meals and over night. Some diabetics take a split dose of Lantus or Levemir because neither one covers a 24 hour period for everyone.

Whether we use either Lantus or Levemir depends on the individual. If it were me, I would try both and see which one works best is my suggestion.

Permalink Reply by SPRITE'S MOM on January 25, 2011 at 4:06pm

You are absolutely that by eating every 3-4 hours will raise your metabolism, thereby helping with weight loss over someone who eats the same foods, but have a greater amount at less meals.

Permalink Reply by Phill Dill on January 18, 2011 at 11:28am

If you have a choice take Levemir because there is a difference in it. The split dose works for me and and Lantus seems to need more I have been on Lantuis for only 3 months and I have gained 23 pounds I was on Levemir for about a year and it did not have much effect on weight.

Permalink Reply by Rich1960 on February 19, 2011 at 11:12am

Insulin doesn't cause weight gain.......it's getting blood sugar under control without adjusting your diet that gains the weight.

Permalink Reply by Cheery Love on February 19, 2011 at 3:37pm

yes it does!

Permalink Reply by Suftroml on February 20, 2011 at 12:16am

No it doesn't. PWOD use insulin too (from the pancreas) and there are plenty of non-obese PWOD. All insulin does is allow your body to process glucose from the bloodstream into where it needs to go. That's it. If you don't believe me do this. Go on an extreme low carb/no carb diet. Eat 4000+ calories a day of fat and protein. Your insulin needs will go down from the lack of carbs. Your weight WILL go up. Period. Calories are calories. If you eat too much you gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories are carbs or fat. Your body will shove them somewhere, and if it can't burn em or dump em then it's going straight to your thighs.

Permalink Reply by Zolar1 on February 20, 2011 at 11:48pm

From what I read, insulin shuts down the fat metabolism in favor of carb metabolism.
When you are insulin resistant, this means the BS are converted into fat at a rapid pace since the body doesn't want to incorporate the BS much.

Yes, too much of a good thing is bad. But I don't know of anyone who eats 4,000 calories a day from fat. They would have to eat spoonfuls of lard. Who can actually do that?
How many pounds of hamburger can a normal person eat in a day and not eat after 6pm?

It takes a LOT of energy to metabolize fat and protein into energy.

When I didn't take insulin, I had a serious problem with rapid weight loss. VERY SERIOUS. It was so bad that the calculations indicated that I would die from STARVATION within 2 months. I couldn't eat carbs due to blood sugar issues. I did eat greasy sausage and hamburger and peanuts. And I still couldn't stop the weight loss, with one exception. A certain german style cheesecake sold by a bakery up the street.
The problem with that is it costs $8 each and I would have to eat 2 or more a day.
Economics dictated that the cheesecake diet was not sustainable.

When I started using insulin, my weight loss immediately stopped and I began to gain weight. Too much now.

I did an experiment over a few days. No insulin....

1st day only lost 1 pound.
2nd day lost 3 pounds
3rd day lost 5 pounds.

I went back on my insulin. My weight stabilized again.

If I don't have insulin (or cheesecake), I can waste away to nothing in a few weeks.

Between high PP blood sugars and rapid weight loss, my endo gave me insulin.

Note: a normal person's pancreas usually doesn't give a person a low blood sugar.
Insulin does.
I know of no one who has 100% predictable results with insulin.
You start to (or even get) low, you eat carbs. You get high, you take more insulin.
A vicious cycle begins.

Lately I have had to double my insulin dose for the exact same meals I eat every day.
But to combat the high BS, I divided up the dose into 4.
I took 1/4 of the dose in each of 4 locations at the same time frame.

The results were really nice. BS was in the 90's and no low's either.

Permalink Reply by Suftroml on February 21, 2011 at 11:04am

Ok, everything that follows is for a T1. T2s & insulin resistant have a different can of worms to open -
The body is designed to run on carbohydrates - it's the basis of metabolism (both catabolism and anabolism). Carbs are broken down to sugar. Sugar is the primary energy we are designed for (study how the muscles and liver suck up glucose post workout). A T1 takes insulin and the body DOES go into carbohydrate mode - carbs are easier on the body than converting fat to burn as energy. Quit taking insulin and you begin a spiral into DKA - the body can no longer process carbs and all that weight you lose is your body converting fat (and later muscle) into energy to burn. Low/no carb diets are based on controlled ketosis which is the burning of fat but take note that even these diets require insulin as some of the fat and protein will be converted to glucose (much less than if an equal amount of calories in carbohydrates would be consumed).
So insulin causes you to gain weight? No. It causes your body to process carbohydrates the way they are meant to be processed. You still have to burn more calories than you take in in order to lose weight. That was my point about 4000 calories in fat and protein with no carbs - you will still gain weight (unless you are burning 4000+ cals a day). And notice I said eliminating carbs reduces the need for insulin. It doesn't eliminate it completely. A low carb diet requires a reduction in insulin to prevent going low and thus prevent having to eat carbs.
So insulin doesn't cause weight gain? No. Insulin is a requirement to shuttle glucose (and corresponding amino acids which come from protein) into muscles. This allows the muscle fibers (cells) to grow in length and breadth, which in turn increases muscle size which increases weight. If you balance exercise, diet and insulin you will either maintain your muscles or cause them to grow.
A better question is, "Will insulin make me fat?" Well, I'll answer this by re-wording the question AND making it apply to everyone on earth (diabetic and non-diabetic). A person without any insulin in their system will lose weight. Fast. Unchecked they will die. There is no way around this fact. So insulin does cause fat gain. But that is only if you are consuming more calories than your body is burning. If you are burning 1800 calories daily and you eat 2600 calories you will become fat. There is no way around that. One pound of fat = Approx 3,500 calories. Eat an 800 calorie surplus each day and you will gain one pound every four to five days. Fat itself though has a caloric maintenance requirement (study how ATPase pumps in the body work and how many calories they burn per type of cell they are in). So the more fat you have the more calories you need. This is why a person weighing five hundred pounds can drop so much fat in a 2 month period and then begin a slow crawl to their target weight. The more weight you lose the tougher it is to lose weight.
You can also be on a carb-high diet, be T1 and stay skinny. I eat more than 4000 calories a day, and at least 500g of carbs. I'm 5'11", weigh 168lbs (as of this morning) and have about 10% body fat. I take more than 50 units of insulin a day now to keep up with my diet. I don't gain weight. Why? I row for over an hour a day, lift weights every day and go running every day. Combined with the amount of walking I do plus my metabolic caloric requirements I eat whatever I want (plus a lot I don't want to). By the theory that insulin causes weight gain at 50+ units I should be gaining a pound a day.
A normal person's pancreas WILL cause low blood sugars - it is rare though as the pancreas tends to be better at insulin dosing and maintaining glucose homeostasis than our conscious brain is. In order for a non-diabetic to go low they need to go many, many hours without eating and drinking (other than water). An outstanding example of this is soldiers in extended combat. After about 6 hours of combat the body will burn every ounce of glucose it can; it will dump all its reserves into the bloodstream after that. Then the soldier will survive on pure adrenaline keeping him going (death is an amazing motivator). Once safely back in camp they will start shaking and have ravenous hunger. And we all know what that is. These are not diabetics - they are normal pancreatic utilizing folks who consume what they want to.
Injecting the same dose into multiple areas works faster due to quicker absorption - you're spreading the dose over a larger area of subcutaneous fat which allows more vasculature in the hypo-dermis to take the insulin throughout the body.
And insofar as your cheesecake diet - a German style cheesecake averages 6,000 calories. Some go as high as 10,000. Google "German Cheesecake Nutritional Facts" to see the information for yourself.

Permalink Reply by Zolar1 on February 21, 2011 at 12:14pm

Good info!

I did have to eat at least ONE of those cheesecakes a day, plus my regular low carb diet just to maintain my weight, without the use of a single med or insulin. That's how I know it worked.

And I don't do squat for exercise. I walk from the house to the truck, from the truck into a store, and reverse the trend.

Once springtime rolls around, I will have a lot more exercise.

I have yet to experience any normal person who is non diabetic get low blood sugars.
The soldiers are the exception, not the rule.

Normal people will begin depleting fat reserves when glucose is low, and eventually experience muscle wasting (my experience here as well).

I MUST eat significant amounts of carbs to survive, diabetes or not. And I must have insulin to prevent the weight loss. Without both, I will die in a matter of a few months. Also, my weight loss doesn't slow down as I lose weight. It speeds up.

FYI: for every 16% in body weight you lose, you DOUBLE your metabolism. And this is entirely without exercising. Exercise and the rate is much higher.

I had to split my doses in order to keep blood sugars under control.
I must have a screwy system....

And the vast majority of my weight loss occurs while I am sleeping ONLY. I have no idea why.

You sound like you are into the medical field. Are you? I hope not. I don't trust ANYONE in the medical field any more. At least not with my health. I have too many bad experiences with the medical field to trust any of them again. Things like DIEING because no one would listen to me, but later I managed to convince them of the problem, THEN they treated me.
Ain't gonna happen again.

It seems they have their facts all wrong and backwards. I am proof of that.

The food pyramid is politically engineered, not health engineered.

I go by my own plan, and my health is near perfect, without eating a single vegetable or doing all that useless unproductive exercising. If I am going to exercise, I will do something productive.
My time is far too valuable to waste on anything unproductive.

I went by their plan, and gained weight rapidly - 25 pounds in a month.

All for the same meals too. My diet rarely changes.

Once I get a chance, I will design an accurate - non political - food pyramid for everyone. Just no time right now.

Actually two of them. One for type 2's and one for everyone else, assuming no other health problems.

Please note: I saw a dietitian once. The moment I got home, I threw her diet plan in the trash.
If I went by that, I would have high a1c's and still be significantly fat to this day.

Permalink Reply by Zolar1 on February 21, 2011 at 12:16pm

Follow up:

I did exactly what you told me to do:

Google "German Cheesecake Nutritional Facts" to see the information for yourself.

It came up as this is the only place on the internet that mentions the cheesecake facts.

Permalink Reply by Anne on March 5, 2011 at 9:40am

I was wondering if anyone had a source that states that you gain weight due to Lantus...

Lantus works very well for me so there would be no reason for switching to Levemir.
Though, I have trouble with my weight. I'm not overweight - yet. But I can't eat as much as a normal person can without gaining weight and it's frustrating because I'm actually trying to lose some, which turned out to be impossible.

So, I would definitely be willing to try Levemir if it meant that it would be easier for me to control my weight.

Thinking back, it does make sense that the Lantus has something to do with it since I never had as much trouble before I was on that insulin as I have now. But then, I was a teenager then and you can't always compare your reaction to a certain insulin in your teen years to your reaction as as an adult.

My next appointment will be sometime in 2-3 weeks.

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