Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by srfitzger on February 16, 2011 at 8:25am

I will also bring up the the hypothesis confirming effect. People tend to look for ideas or theories that affirm their own beliefs, and falsely identify evidence as fact. Further, they will also search for the same false evidence to disprove any theories that directly conflict with their beliefs. One thing that conributes to this is what are known as illusory correlations. When 2 unlikely things are paired together, we underestimate the frequency of their occurance. For instance, consider 2 rare events: testicular cancer and the pope seeing you in the hospital. A person will likely take these 2 things and pair them together and say that they were cured because the pope was there.
When in fact, tehre is absolutely no statistical proof that that events are related..
and there you go.

Permalink Reply by Gerri on February 16, 2011 at 11:56pm

You're a more patient person than I. I've got a degree in anthropology & wouldn't attempt an explanation. Maybe it's because I've had believers say that god planted archaeological evidence as part of the master plan. I've encountered many people who have no problem with evolution & also believe in predestination & that god giveth & taketh away, or that god is in charge of evolution. Cognitive dissonance exists everywhere. There's usually an answer for any logical/scientific explanation offered, culminating with the catch-all of god works in mysterious ways.

(Just an aside. Evolution doesn't necessarily always move as slowly as is generally assumed. There's the theory of punctuated equilibrium. Interestingly, though rare, there are human babies born with small tails & babies born with natal coats,not as rare.)

I don't have answer to the question posed, sorry. I shrug my shoulders, say I disagree & walk away quickly, or change the subject.

My mother, not religious & an intelligent person, believes all kinds of new age twaddle. She's gone to psychics & frequently uses the hypothesis confirming effect you mention. She sees connections where none exist. We've had some heated discussions about the latter.

Permalink Reply by BadMoonT2 on February 17, 2011 at 1:49am

In the end it all comes down to faith, which by definition cannot be proved or disproved.

I can cite the series of fossils which show how horses wound up walking on one toe as proof of evolution, but someone who believes Genesis is the literal truth will be impervious to my arguments.

Permalink Reply by acidrock23 on February 23, 2011 at 7:16pm

I would would go for philosophy and follow Sartre and tell them there are two kinds of being, being in itself and being for itself. I might hit myself in the head with a being in itself if I had one handy. The universe is non-conscious being in itself and people, dogs and other conscious beings for themselves arose out of it. I would also suggest that the Big Bang theory also ties together Nietzsche's notiion of Eternal Recurrence quite nicely.

I blame atmospheric nuclear testing for diabetes since I was born in Albuquerque, NM in 1967, there were probably still lots of stray gamma rays floating around.

Somehow this came up at work and my coworker, who "outed" herself as a Jehovah's Witness, now has invited me to have coffee with Mr. JW "sometime so we can talk about things". Part of me sort of likes this stuff. When I was in college we'd get fourteen sheets to the wind in the middle of the day and staggger around the quad getting badgered by proselytizers all full of themselves. "Look at the beautiful sky, how can you not believe in god!!" "chemical reaction dude" except I still believe that today, when I'm sober.

Permalink Reply by Rebecca on February 23, 2011 at 9:51pm

I believe that people are afraid. They create irrational answers to questions that can not possibly ever be answered. Like "what happens when we die", a lot of people find comfort in the idea of heaven or an after life, and that is understandable. I have no issue with people "believing" as long as they do not attempt to make me a "believer". I had a friend say that he would pray for me the other day and I responded "Be careful you might get struck by lightening for saying my name!' The FACT is we have diabetes because our panceases are giant ass-holes. Just kidding. But really, the fact that we have diabetes has nothing to do with a master plan made by some higher being, and anyone who even tries to suggest this to me, is automatically an idot in my books.

Permalink Reply by srfitzger on February 24, 2011 at 8:21am

and I love the responses from people who say....since GOD made me have type 1 i have helped other people or I have become a stronger person, which I am fine with and in fact the same principal applies to most of us however I hate when they go on to say if I had to chose, I would chose to be a type 1 again....no you wouldn't.

The MAJORITY of the US population is very weak minded, we are one of the most religious countries in the world compared to Sweden 85% realist, France 50% england 45%...we are about 7%. People can't accept the reality around them, I really feel that today's youth though understands what BS religion is and I forsee us being 50/50 realists in the next 50 years.

Permalink Reply by acidrock23 on February 24, 2011 at 3:01pm

I'm not so sure about the country moving in a more realistic direction? I still know quite a few younger people who are moving in that direction. Religion remains a "litmus test" for politicians as I think there's a very short list of national level politicians who have successfully marketed an athestic worldview on the national stage. It baffles me when people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama pretty much trot out their religion. I am not sure I can accuse them of not having it as they've both said they do.

Permalink Reply by Gerri on February 24, 2011 at 3:13pm

I don't see this either, acidrock. My husband's a college professor & he's seen his students become more conservative over his 25 years teaching. He's thrilled when he has students with any critical thinking skills. They question little, accept almost everything & bow before authority. It's like Monty Python's Life of Brian with everyone screaming in unison, "We are all individuals."

Permalink Reply by SF Pete on February 26, 2011 at 1:46pm

... "I'm not."

Permalink Reply by SF Pete on February 26, 2011 at 1:56pm

Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" does a really good job with a real-time example of evolution and natural selection. It has to do with a type of crab in Japan. In the body of water they exist in, there was a legendary battle, yadda, yadda, yadda. The local believed that the crabs with carapaces that were shaped like the face of a samurai were the souls of the combatants and would be thrown back into the bay. As a result, the plain carapace crab has been selected out by being served in any number of local delicacies.

Permalink Reply by Stuart on October 2, 2011 at 7:56am

Your conversation is too long and dangerous for friendly ~coffee conversation~ IMHO.

Smile and politely offer "...YOUR god not mine...".


You cannot argue with "faith"... it is beyond reason... and cares nothing for logic. Avoid the avoidable, do not engage in the battle...